02:09:54
20. 04. 2025

Místnost
English breakfast

Místnost má od 14:03:18  24. 08. 2002 pronajatou toomz

Pokud se chcete zapojit do diskuze, musíte se do Taverny nejdříve zaregistrovat nebo přihlásit



« ««   17   »» »

verlit, vloženo 20:50:09  02. 03. 2011

Well, I am not saying it is wrong to have State Exam (or that you cannot teach Enghlish) but it is really not an exam about using English naturally.
It is typical "old school" theory-centred exam. Interesting for those who want to study linguistics, useless to prove you can speak English during the important meeting.

Dara, vloženo 20:45:35  02. 03. 2011

My mum has State Exam too. And se even teached english when we (me and my brother) were little.

verlit, vloženo 20:16:17  02. 03. 2011

I think he has State Exam :-)
(Which is rubbish, honestly it cannot be taken seriously as an exam proving the konwledge of English. Maybe knowledge "about" English.

Dara, vloženo 19:39:14  02. 03. 2011

It's not "special paragraphs for Cambridge writing", but special paragraphs for english people :-)

Because they send it to GB for evaluation. So you need to write it like english people do. (No czech handwriting, or czech pragraphs - menaning just indent at the beginning of line isn't enough. It really must be "skiped line". - That I was told by english techer at preparation course)


Hmm, I was now thinkig - does Kantůrek has CPE?

Mivka, vloženo 18:39:21  02. 03. 2011

Meri: Well, Cambridge certificate simply have specific tasks. There's no point in complaining about it - if you want to do the certificate, you simply have to learn how the tasks look and adapt yourself.
In speaking, you have to introduce yourself and in each task, there is interaction with the interlocutor and one task itself is a dialogue between you and your partner - in FCE it's terrible with the pictures, I personally hated it, it tied my hands, and I had problems with the time limit, but in CAE there is a normal dialogue.
Only one task in CAE is about the pictures and that's trying to test your improvisation skills and ability to talk independently. Of course, it's not a simulation of a real situation and it is a little annoying, but you practice it twice if you have no problems with talking out of the blue, five times, if you tend to get nervous and you do it fine.

Dara: Find mistake is not there anymore, at least I think so. Certainly, it's not in the CAE.
Of course you need paragraphs, in every normal text you need paragraphs, if you don't do paragraphs, the mean literary competition judge Mivka eats you alive :) But I've never heard of some special paragraphs for Cambridge writing and I've just had a course for CAE and did a ton of writings. :) However, yes, you need to learn all the kinds of tasks and their formal style.

I think that for any job besides the more qualified ones in English speakig countries and those working only with the language, FCE is OK. If you'd like to be a translator, interpretor or anything near to this, the only thing you get with FCE is a very condescending tone and "thank you, darling, come back later, once you are more qualified" :)) CAE is better, but CPE is the only thing, that really has at least some value in this field to more employers.

Dara, vloženo 18:28:47  02. 03. 2011

Verlit: Thanks. Really. Now I can tell this my mother. She still persuades me to do CAE.

verlit, vloženo 17:10:23  02. 03. 2011

Meridion: I think it does not really matter if what you say is really linked to the picture. The point is to assess if you are able to talk.
As far as I remember "my picture" was from some fashion show: a model and a child on the catwalk. What I talked about was actually how I dislike using children in marketing and it was perfectly allright.

Dara: Once you have FCE, there is no point doing CAE, most recruiters will not know the difference anyway.
If somebody is thinking about taking exam, I advice to do just FCE if you expect to work in companiew requiring common, solid knowledge of English.
If you are planning to have a career where higher level is expected (eg. translator, linguistics etc.), then skip FCE and go for CAE or higher. Having two exams does not add any value, just go for the highest one you might need.

Dara, vloženo 15:53:39  02. 03. 2011

Best part of these exams is "find mistake", I never get them all. Ad about 70 % is huge succes :-(
In writing part... yes, it's about grammar, but a lot about "style". You need it writ it in english style - paragraf is, when you skip one line. And you need to have paragraphs!
My speaking part was interesting. My partner talked about something different, than we were asked, and I wasn't able guide him to right topic.


But I have question for those, who already have some of these exams. Did they help you enywhere? Like with job?

I have FCE, I work in company, with 99% of foreign customers. Almost everything here is written in Englis. And my superiors English is worse or same as my. And they must speak with our customers!
So at first after school, I wanted to do also CAE, but now...I don't have motivation to spend more than 5000 Kč (for books/courses and exam), fo nothing useful.

Meridion, vloženo 09:14:02  02. 03. 2011

I have my own opinion on the tests of the ability of using the language, due to "speaking" part in my FCE. We had to describe a picture in front of us. However, the question was not to simply describe the picture but what are the people in the people there doing or something like this. Imagine a large hall with small persons walking and standing. Neither I nor my talking partner had a clue what was the picture about and we should talk about it. I have been always better in reading and writing in English than talking and, until recently, listening but that time it was total zero.

verlit, vloženo 08:03:39  02. 03. 2011

Yes, that´s what I mean. Of course you need to know grammar but it is more about being able to USE the language then just do a meaningless excercise to practice past tense or something.

Mivka, vloženo 06:48:43  02. 03. 2011

Well, I'm not very sure how it was a long time ago, but right now the grammar in use is a part of every Cambridge ESOL certificate. In CAE it contains of normal multiple choice, some gap filling, word formation, sentence formation and the cute one with finding one word suitable for three sentences with multiple meanings. So it's not that much about grammar, but you need to be overall sure with grammatical rules. But it tests your vocabulary much more than your grammar, that's true.

And for the writing tasks you should be able to write without much (or ideally any) grammatical mistakes, of course.

Genevieve, vloženo 23:13:24  01. 03. 2011

There are´nt any "use of english" like in FCE? :-) nice! :-)

verlit, vloženo 23:05:33  01. 03. 2011

CAE (and same is true for all the Cambridge exams in fact) is not very grammar centric exam. Actually being able to express yourself naturally, as close to native speaker as possible, is much more important.
It is a long time since I passed it but as far as I remember there weren´t pure grammar questions at all.

Legolas Craft, vloženo 22:59:05  01. 03. 2011

Mivka: Well, before I went for the exchange I had been capable of passing the exam with some preparation. At least I believe so.

However my grammar and wordpower has suffered great losses as no one really speaks well here. And as I have never had problems with "speaking" it only cost me my ability to use english well.
Of course, all the other aspects of this whole thing are, at least in long term, positive :).

PS: Don´t mention Project text books in front of me, please. I´ve never really understood what has graphical part of my work to do with the evaluation of english course.

Mivka, vloženo 22:48:23  01. 03. 2011

Well, using workbooks for certificates is fine if you want to actually do the certificate someday, but since there are quite many of them and since the Cambridge ESOL tasks are quite specific and actually don't have as much to do with the real level of one's English.

With the articles - I think it's quite difficult to make normal articles for lower level speakers, since they don't know that much vocabulary and the grammar is very limited, therefore we get the completely imbecile articles in certain books.

As to Project, well, I think it's quite OK for kids from, lets say, 10-14 years, but I personally had to put up with it till my second year of high school and I hated it deeply :))

LC: As to your story - do you have a clear idea of how CAE looks like? :) Because if not, you might like to try it - either of course there is a lot of tests in books or maybe even on the Internet or the local centers of British Council sometimes do a pre-testing - in Ústí it's free. I was quite scared of it in September, but right now - about a week before my exam - I'd like to conjure up some serious time-travelling magic, go back to September and kick my own butt to start preparing and registering for CPE. CAE is really not as difficult as it looks.

Of course, if I get A from the exam, I still get a certificate for C2 level (at least I hope so!), but it's a much less valuable exam.

Legolas Craft, vloženo 21:33:00  01. 03. 2011

On intermediate level we used Gold (FCE level). Those were quite ok.

Except for that Murphy for sure.


Another story - I must admit, that I had hoped that my english was gonna improve before I applied for the exchange studies. On the contrary, since I´ve been here in Finland, my english has been getting worse and worse. I was hoping to take CAE exam afterwards, now I guess that it is gonna take much more effort now.

verlit, vloženo 21:10:05  01. 03. 2011

Well, I was young when I used it (it was almost 20 years ago :-) and I liked it then.

Dara, vloženo 21:03:08  01. 03. 2011

Me and my mom, we don't like headway (uppermediate, don't know higher leves). When we used it at school, it wasn't at all interesting. Not even articles. May by, if you are older and know, you want to do some english exam (FCE, CAE), than the articles and lessons can be useful.

I liked Project, but it's for youger students. And white-red Grammar in Use, if I remeber the name properly.

verlit, vloženo 20:57:57  01. 03. 2011

I agree, Murphy (the red one) and Headways were my most appreciated textbooks when I studied English.

Mivka, vloženo 20:38:39  01. 03. 2011

I have just rediscovered this cute poem about English pronunciation and it's actually quite fun to read out loud.

Hints on English Pronunciation

I take it you already know
Of tough and bought and cough and dough
Others may stumble but not you,
On thourough, plough, enough and through
Well done! And now you wish perhaps
To learn of less familiar traps.

Beware of heard: a dreadful word
That looks like beard and sounds like bird.
And dead: it's said like bed not bead
For goodness sake don't call it deed.
Watch out for meat and great and threat
(They rhyme with suite and straight and debt).

And here is not a match for there,
Nor dear and fear, for bear and pear.
And then there's dose and rose and lose -
Just look them up - and goose and choose
And cork and work and card and ward
And font and front and word and sword
And do annd go, then thwart and cart,
Come, come! I've hardly made a start.

A dreadful language? Why man alive!
I'd mastered it when I was five.
And yet to write, the more I tried,
I hadn't learned at fifty-five.

It's from Headway Advanced which I think is a very good excercise book for this level for adults, since it lacks the idiotic articles for reading which are very common in the books that are primarily meant to be for teenage students - instead it has quite normal topics with relevant vocabulary and sometimes even very interesting texts - for example extract from The Importance of Being Earnest.
Do you have any good experience with English workbooks in general?
I use Murphy's Grammar a lot - either the blue one or the purple one, but it's not a complex workbook, just grammar. Also I have one Czech book on grammar (it's white and red) which I use as an addition to Murphy and for explaining English syntactic structure, but that's again just grammar.
I have a good experience with Headway on the more advanced levels, but I'm not sure with books for beginners (I'm only very sure which ones not to use, because I have met a lot of terrible English books during my education) and since one day I may end up learning some, I'd like to hear some recommendations.

« ««   17   »» »

Zpět



Fantasy a Sci-fi: Taverna
© Jirka Wetter, jeremius@fantasy-scifi.net
, 2001 - 2005
Design: Rinvit, Jeremius
Na textech se podíleli Pavel Džuban a Toomz
URL: http://fantasy-scifi.net/taverna/taverna.php